One of two most BAMF scenes in the whole series... And they both belong to women. <3

[dragonofmemory]

So ya know, the whole reason I did six episodes last time was so that these last couple could all fit in one entry.  Well, apparently not.  -_-;;;  Anyway, all comments taken from The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5.  Sound bytes are from the Down Below Sound Archive.

Severed Dreams:

Important episode warning again.  Extreme spoilers ahead.

"Why are these three episodes not marked as a three-parter?
For the most part, it's a matter of how the episodes feel to me, what length they feel as if they require. When I did the big three this year -- Messages, Point and Dreams -- I hadn't really figured they'd be as tightly connected as they ended up being. I knew they'd relate strongly to one another, but in a sense, they're really a three parter. The War Without End story I knew was WAY too big for one episode, but due to the structure of the story wouldn't take being extended for one more episode; at that point you'd just be dragging it out.

It's all instinct, I wish I had a more concrete answer."

I dunno.  I think it'd feel weird as a three-parter.  I mean, it's one you watch all together, but they all have solid plots that are resolved at the end.  It's an arc three-parter, but not an episode-plot three-parter.  They're all sort of separate in their own way.  At least, that's how it feels to me.

"Why the title?
If B5 was a dream given form, and the EA had the potential to be something more than it has become, and the two part ways, then you have severed dreams. (I had a much more elegant and interesting reply, but obviously it entered Vorlon space and hasn't been allowed out again.)"

That is a fantastic excuse for not sounding elegant.  I think I need to start using it.

"Re: Foundation "adding a new flame effect"...sort of. One night, we just went out into the parking lot, set up a camera pointing up behind a plexiglass screen, and set off a bunch of explosions above it. Went great until one of the blasts was so big it melted through the plex *and* the camera lens....

Looked good though, didn't it?"

This... does not surprise me.  I probably would have approved though.

"Funny thing is, how much as you note the show corresponds to some of the things Mira's been through...some of it intentional, knowing that if I dig into this area, it'll come out of her with the ring of truth...some of it quite unintentional. When I finished writing "Severed Dreams," and the actors got it, Mira's first words to me were, "So...how long DID you live in Yugoslavia?" The parallel wasn't intentional...but it fit."

I... am suddenly much more interested in the actress's life.  I want to know now.  She was so sweet when she was at the con too.  It was the first one she had ever been too, and you could tell she was just slightly overwhelmed by us.  XD

"Toni: thanks. All of the characters shine in this one, Mira in particular as Delenn. It's a nice contrast; her speech to the Grey Council is an intense piece of work that goes on for a while; her declaration to the EA ships is short, to the point, and absolutely deadly. The right tool for the right job.

I'm utterly pleased and proud of the job we did here. Partly because it's just so nifty on its own terms, and partly because it gives us a new level to try and beat. Up until now, I've been looking to top "Coming of Shadows;" now the goal is to top this one...and I think it's possible there may be one or two even this season that'll do that, but tonally I think they're different enough that it might end up as a tie.

I definitely wanted the close-in, hand-to-hand fighting to personalize what's going on. It's also very logical strategically. You send in your forces to disable or overwhelm C&C, distract them, slip in a cadre of troops to a station that (you hope) didn't know you were coming...then they race to C&C and seize control from inside, shooting anyone they have to en route. If Sheridan et al hadn't known the ships were coming in, this could've gone very differently. But once they were in, they were in close quarters, and you want to get in closer if you're on the defensive side so that they can't use their weapons without cutting down their own people. After that you have to hope you can overwhelm the intruders with sheer force of numbers. It's an ugly, awful way to win a fight, because it *guarantees* casualties...but what war doesn't?

Something to bear in mind when rewatching, btw...it was during this scene that Jerry fell and broke his right arm and right wrist. And they still had one last scene to film. He stuck it out and they rolled film, to get the shot of him and Zack at the end of the fight. Next time you watch it, keep an eye on the right arm as he releases the helmet...it bends in directions never intended by evolution."

Basically, BAMF Delenn is BAMF.  Do not mess with her.  She will win, and she will do it in a way that puts Chuck Norris to shame.  If you value your lives, be somewhere else.  I love how the only other moment of sheer bad-assery on this show that can come anywhere close to topping this, also belongs to a female character.  We love you, JMS.

Also... Ow.  Just ow.  Really ow.  No wonder he had the sling in the next episode.  It also might explain the cane then sling thing, since that scene might have been filmed before then.

"Oddly enough, Jerry's broken arm tied *beautifully* into something that had happened in the course of the episode we were filming, so all it took was a line or two to sell it.

The funny thing is...in the very next episode after the incident, there was a line in the script I'd written *weeks* earlier, and it freaked everybody out...when Garibaldi asks someone to do something, and the person responds, "What, you've got a broken arm or something?" At first some people thought I'd put it in there to pink Jerry, but it'd been there the whole time. Similarly, in the Claudia incident, there was a line (cut for time) where Sheridan says talking to the Drazi is like trying to talk to your right foot...and Ivanova replies "I'll have you know I have a sublime relationship with my right foot." Yep, the next day...that's the foot she broke.

Just recently, I was trying to explain time travel to one of the actors. I used the analogy, over lunch, "Suppose you finished eating your chicken here, then got sick as a dog a few hours later, then got in a time machine to go back in time and warn yourself not to eat the chicken." Well, a few hours after that...the actor got sick as a dog from the chicken.

I have been asked, expressly, not to make any further mention of actors' body parts in scripts...."

*snickers*  YOU ARE THE HAND.  But on a more serious note, that's probably a good idea.  Actors are a superstitious lot, after all.

"We shot that last scene with Garibaldi *after* we'd shot the sequence showing his injured leg. We don't shoot in sequence. So we had to cover it in the next episode."

Oh, look.  I was right.

"Actually, though, because he *did* have his hand in his pocket, it let me handle the break in the next episode without stretching credulity too far. It was...well...I guess you'd call that part of it a lucky break."

And you guys think my puns are bad.

"We'd booked the actor long, long in advance. At the last minute, he bailed to do a DS9 episode playing, essentially, the same character, despite our having first dibs.

So I killed off the character. Didn't change the story by the smallest measure. May actually have helped, since it raised the stakes in the story right from the start.

Rule #1: Never honk off the writer."

You know, I'd kind of figured that.  I thought they'd been unable to get the actor, but I didn't realize he'd bailed like that.  At least it helped in the end.  XD  Silly DS9.

"Major Ryan was overstepping his rank.
Except, of course, you now have an extraordinary situation in which the Major, through the death of his CO, was now the commanding officer of the Alexander. In ordinary circumstances, this would mean he'd be given a field promotion.

Second, I don't recall any situation where the Major was "giving orders to a commander." The aide on the deck of the Alexander was a Lieutenant, as I recall. Also, if Hague indicated that he was to be given command as he died, that would likely be honored. Finally, yes, the Major was involved in the discussions of strategy, but in *every case* he presented Sheridan and Hiroshi with options, and because it was Sheridan's neck of the woods, it was left to Sheridan to give orders. He coordinated the defense, and was the only one speaking directly with the Agrippa."

O_o  Where do you people get these questions?  When you're the highest ranking officer after the death of a CO, it's your job to lead.  That's logical, isn't it?  I would have thought so.

""...hit between the eyes." Yeah, that's the correct reaction, I'd say.

Yes, it's easy to fire on the enemy when it's a faceless entity; not as easy when it's someone you know. Kinda brings it home, makes it personal."

Civil wars are messy, messy things.  I love how B5 does not shy away from this.

"Exactly. If you're going to do something as monumental as what Sheridan does here re: B5's status and Earth, it can't be done lightly or frivolously or without sufficient cause. It has to be an absolutely last resort. If we'd done it any sooner, it would've been less effective, and more of a cheat.

And yes, after two breather stories, "Ship of Tears" starts the arc moving again, and with very few exceptions doesn't let up for the rest of the season."

And there you go, Cy.  XD  There had to be build up.

"Where was Kosh during all this?
Yeah...Kosh seems to have retreated a bit so far...worrying, that."

Hm, worrisome indeed.  <3  And oh, dear.  I just realized what's coming up soon.  :o

"Why didn't Sheridan ask for help from Draal or Delenn?
The other thing to bear in mind about all this is the question of a "clean fight." If Sheridan were to bring in alien forces at his order to kill humans, it would pretty much destroy his credibility. Delenn came in at the end but only after he'd made his stand on his own.

One of the things that kicked off the French Revolution was the allegation that the King had brought in or was bringing in Prussian troops to help put down dissenters. As long as it was all more or less in the family, that was one thing...but to bring in outsiders was an absolute affront to them. (One of the singular incidents that started the fighting itself was a group of Prussian soldiers sighted sitting in a cafe having lunch, which caused this rumor about outsiders coming in to spread like wildfire, and led to the some of the first major incidents of rioting.)

Two brothers may fight one another, but let a third unrelated person come in and shove one of the brothers around, and they'll *both* turn on him.

During the worst days of the civil war, even Lincoln was offered assistance in troops from at least one other country; he declined, because it was an internal matter, and had to be resolved by those involved, not outsiders.

Sheridan's logic was exactly the same. It had to be a clean fight."

Never get in the middle when it's a family thing.  Seriously.  Bad stuff happens. 

""Severed Dreams had a line that was better than Ivanava's sex scene. Wow, do these women get lines!"

Can't help it. I've always been vastly enamoured of strong, sharp, funny, independent and strong-willed women. (Well, me and 99% of the rest of the male population, most of them just won't admit it.)

I love it when anyone -- male or female -- comes up with a killer line. Claudia and I are always going at it, each trying to top the other...and I've found out the hard way that you don't challenge her on the theory that she'll back down. Won't happen. Ivanova's just the same. Mira is also dedicated, fierce in her convictions, extremely bright and worldly.

So why should their characters be any less than the women themselves?"

We love you, JMS.  We really, really do. 

""...my favorite part, I must say was when Sheridan kissed Delenns hand. I've been waiting anxiously for this to happen and it finally did! My housemates all laughed at me but I guess I'm just an incurable romantic."

This is a problem?

We are in need of more romance. "

I... am not saying anything to that statement.  You guys probably already know. 

"About the boarding party's uniforms
Instead of going for a sinister EA look, I wanted the uniforms to be something we're used to, "our side," as you say. There aren't many blacks-and-whites on this show. It's all greys...and sometimes olive drab."

Because again, civil war.  That makes sense.

"About the Narn sacrifice
What you also have to bear in mind sometimes is that *this* is the only way to get things done. When the Allies stormed Normandy Beach, they knew that German bunkers and machine nests and fortified positions were right there on the beach waiting for them. But they stormed out, onto the beach, and the first lines were cut down, one after another after another, hundreds, literally thousands of soldiers. But those behind were able to get through, take up position as best they could. Some of them clung to the edges of cliffs as Germans above laughed and threw down grenades into their midst.

Sometimes there's no other way. But you do it because those who command you have the moral authority to say "You probably will not come back, but the cause is just, and fair, and necessary."

Thus do we go off to die."

Theirs is not to question why, theirs is but to do or die.  Into the valley of death rode the six hundred.  Don't deny it, JMS.  That's what you were thinking.  Sinclair would have quoted it.  XD

"Themes of personal sacrifice
"It's all this stuff that I think really makes the show. The mystery certainly helps, but the puzzles are no longer my main reason for watching."

Aaron: exactly. This was something I said a lot around the first part of the second season, that this really *isn't* a mystery novel, in any conventional sense, no more so than any novel whose ending is yet to be revealed.

You picked up on exactly the themes that are present in the show, with some more to come shortly. Personal sacrifice for a cause -- perhaps a good cause, perhaps not, depending on how wisely we make our decisions -- is probably the dominant theme at this point in the story.

It's worth mentioning that this story was initially conceived in the midst of the Me Generation, the decade of "I've got mine, jack, screw you all." Since then the culture has gotten increasingly factionalized, groups of Me's pulling and tugging at the fabric not only of the country, bvut of the planet itself. The idea of personal sacrifice, of personal service to a cause, seems to have become...passe. Old fashioned. Silly.

We have an obligation to one another, responsibilities and trusts. That does not mean we must be pigeons, that we must be exploited. But it does mean that we should look out for one another when and as much as we can; and that we have a personal responsibility for our behavior; and that our behavior has consequences of a very real and profound nature. We are not powerless. We have tremendous potential for good or ill. How we choose to use that power is up to us; but first we must choose to use it. We're told every day, "You can't change the world."

But the world is changing every day. Only question is...who's doing it? You or somebody else? Will you choose to lead, or be led by others?

(Y'know, there are moments I look at the preceding paragraphs, and I realize that it wa said more succinctly, and better, and more movingly in "Lost Horizon," with this simple sentence: "Be *kind* to one another.")"

Yes, but I like it when you go off on us like that.  And it's a good theme to have.  Even if we hate you for what you do with it in season 4. 

"The easy thing to do, the TeeVee thing to do, would've been to go from Sheridan's line "All ships return to base," to the exterior with the big ships, and fade out. But I try to keep this show from doing the easy thing. Yes, you had a victory. Yes, it was necessary. But what's the cost? We shouldn't glamorize these things. Even at the end, as you notice, even at the end of the reception...we go out on an ominous note."

Which is why I loved GROPOS, and all the other times in this series that you go the hard way.  Because it's just good drama.

"The older I get, the more I realize there are things you can do with silence you can't do with words, though I still love the form of the speech. There was a lot of counterpoint in this episode, a tool I'm still playing with as a writer; eventually I'll figure out how to really use it properly. (Though there's an interesting scene up later this season using another kind of ironic counterpoint which I think works pretty well.)

Counterpoint?
In a sense, it's going from one emotion or thematic element to a very different, but equally strong one, either as bookends or through intercutting. Going from the high of the victory, to the sudden shot of the dead troops, is thematic counterpoint.

Here's another...in "Cabaret" you've got a scene where the performers in the Cabaret are doing the sort of German dance where you slap your knees and thighs and chest...and they take it a bit further, slapping one another, it's all for comic effect...but during this, you're intercutting the owner of the cabaret being beaten to within an inch of his life by some Brownshirts outside. You go from comic to brutal and back, with the result that the happy little dance suddenly takes on ugly characteristics, and the beating takes on the sense that the participants are having a sick kind of fun, that it's all just another kind of dance, a ritual.

That's what you have to look at as a writer...how this scene works, and how it interacts with the scenes in front, behind and "beside" it (for things happening simultaneously). Sometimes, with the proper counterpoint, you can add whole new levels of meaning to a scene, or make the scene much stronger than it would've been on its own."

Sigh.  There is so much I could say to that.  But then there'd be spoilers.  Instead, I will just sit here and wait impatiently for Nar to get to there.

"I was living in Delenn's head when she uttered those lines for the first time.

She wasn't bluffing.

Delenn *never* bluffs."

Aka, why, yes.  She is that BAMF.  Do not doubt her.

"President Clark got away from the tradition of using Greek names. And the Roanoke was a Virginia colony that disappeared in the 1600s."

One more reason why Clark sucks.  I'd not vote for him on that alone, lol.  XD

"What did ISN know?
I'm sorry, but we cannot answer your question at this time. We are experiencing temporary transmission problems with ISN, but hope to have the situation remedied very soon. Meanwhile, you can direct any inquiries for information to the Ministry of Peace, and the Ministry for Public Information, which has been aiding all public information broadcasts for almost two years now.

At the tone, please leave your name and identicard number. Don't worry about calling back. We'll find you.

<beep>"

That's mean, lol.  XD

This episode.  It is epic.  Extremely epic.  Also, as Ivanova says, "Well, we're screwed."  XD  It all starts coming together now.

Ceremonies of Light and Dark:

From the analysis:

"The Army of Light is now dressed in black uniforms. Whether that's an intentional contrast on Delenn's part, or simply her fashion sense, only time will tell."

It's her fashion sense.  And it's awesome fashion sense.  I love those uniforms.

From the notes: 

"The station logo on the wall in C&C has changed. It used to be a 5 with a pair of olive branches overlaid, presumably signifying peace; now it's a 5 over a sword. The new logo can also be seen on the top of the conference room table in the scene with Delenn and the officers from the Minbari ships."

I... never realized that.  Wow.  That's kind of nifty.

"As it happens, episodes 8, 9 and 10 ("Messages," "Point of No Return," and "Severed Dreams") are kind of a triptych, linked at the hip and designed to pull together/blow out several major hanging plot threads once and for all, and send the show spinning off in an entirely different direction. The hardest one to write was 10, because it's a very emotional episode for the characters, and for me.

And next is #11, which I begin to write this weekend...and #11, year three, is the *exact* midpoint of the 5 year story. This is the hump, the dead center of the journey. It took so long to get here, and suddenly we're halfway finished."

And it's an awesome episode.  I love this one so much.  *snuggles episode*

"Certainly various sorts of love was at the core of the episode, and what we do for one another.

But no, not all relationships have to end badly (despite my own general history in that regard)."

Another reason I love this show.  It shows all sorts of love, rather than just romantic ones.  And really?  That's awesome.  I've always liked friendship over romance.  It's refreshing to have a show that can have something more than sexual tension between characters.

""...note on Lennier: "a pure, higher love"? Pshaw, I've heard that before and seen the results in my own life. Are Minbari so different?"

One would certainly hope so.

And there are such different kinds of feelings even among humans; yes, you're right, often it doesn't work out that way...and sometimes it does."

Again, another statement I can't touch right now.  Though that one is a lot further off. 

"About the slow buildup of the Delenn/Sheridan relationship
What you say about relationships is quite true. The slow process of getting to know somebody, the courtship, the parries and feints and false starts are 85% of the fun. It's the process of getting into somebody's mind, discovering who they are. And that's what these two are doing. It's an awful lot of fun."

Besides, fast build ups don't have the same result.  I seem to remember my mother actually screaming when they had their first kiss.  It was very long awaited.

"The "romance angles" aren't "late additions," but you don't just leap into a romance right off. You couldn't have had the Delenn/Sheridan thing right in the beginning of year two, it had to be built, and grow gradually. Things are introduced as it is time for them to be introduced. The shadows weren't even named until season two, and didn't make their first appearance until late in season one. Is that a late addition?"

Late addition?  Did you not see how adorably they flirted for a good season and a half? 

"About female fans' reaction to Marcus
It's okay...so are most of the women who work in the editing bays at B5. The first few days of this season, as his stuff started coming in, one of them pulled me aside, and with hand firmly on my arm, to let me know she meant business, said, "Listen very carefully: I want to see a LOT more of Marcus.""

What can I say?  We know what we want.  XD  Even I had a thing for Marcus, and I was like... 11. 

"The Nightwatch members looked a lot more sinister than in the past.
I went just a little here for a kind of metaphorical approach; prior to this, Nightwatch folks have always been presented as starched, scrubbed, visually appealing...the face they wanted others to see. Now we see their true face, the scarred, dark, empty eyes, no longer pretending to hide. So we kinda cast in that direction."

Hm, I love it when he does that.  Granted, it's what got us Dem Bones creepiness, but hey.

"Boggs' scar wouldn't have moved like it did.
The physical dynamics of the scar *would* have worked as seen, actually, mainly because that wasn't a piece of makeup, that's a real scar, and it does work that way."

Well, Nar, that explains it.  It wasn't makeup we were impressed with.  It was the actual scar.  I do find it amusing that we had the opposite reaction to it.  We just thought the makeup was fantastic. 

"Actually, no, the song in "Ceremonies" was not intended as a Prisoner riff or homage of any kind. If the song originated with The Prisoner, that'd be one thing, but the song goes back a long, LONG ways before The Prisoner was even thought of.

What happened, actually, was this...I'm a big fan of the Red Clay Ramblers, a terrific group that does sort of bluegrass but very offbeat. I was writing that episode, and I was playing with the torture aspect, and had one of their albums on. At just the moment I got to that scene, up came their rendition of "Ezekiel in the Valley of the Dry Bones." The notion was perfect, so I went back to the original version of the song, which is public domain (rather than their variation on it), and used it. Synchronicity."

Hence, creepiness was born.  >.>

"There's a certain perverseness in making those on the side of light wear black uniforms. It reverses our expectations."

And they look awesome. 

"In general, it's my understanding that the cast really like the new uniforms. They're lighter, easier to move around in, cooler under the lights, and they like the styling, the rogue element to it, and the Minbari aspect."

As I said, awesome.  <3

This episode is one of my favorites.  No, it doesn't have the tension of some of the others... but it's just so good.  Also, you get a total and complete WHAM at the end.  No, I take that back.  You get four total and complete WHAMS at the end, plus one or two in the episode itself.  It's a very character driven episode after all the major arc episodes we've had.  Plus, they all need snuggles.  Lennier, admitting he's in love with Delenn. Sheridan, admitting he loves Delenn to Delenn.  Marcus in general for this episode (and yes, that is one of my all time favorite lines by him.  It's the third most quoted line in my household).  Garibaldi, being afraid all the time.  Franklin, admitting he has a problem.  Ivanova.  SO MANY FEELS.  And four of them are one, right after enough without lessening the impact of any of them.  That is hard to do.  And it's glorious. 

...  Now I want to watch that episode again.  T_T

So we are now half-way through the series.  The literal half-way point.  And it's so very awesome.  <3  I'm looking forward to what Nar thinks of the rest.

Comments

Re: dang I had everything all nicely written & then Internet ate it. Now I have to write it all agai

[dragonofmemory]

Sigh. This is why we can't have nice things.